Comments on: Dear Search Committee, I really do want the job. I’m sorry I published? http://www.johnbasl.com/?p=346 John Basl's home on the web Fri, 03 Sep 2010 01:50:01 +0000 hourly 1 By: School guides http://www.johnbasl.com/?p=346&cpage=1#comment-629 School guides Thu, 31 Dec 2009 08:51:05 +0000 http://www.johnbasl.com/?p=346#comment-629 Generally I do not post on blogs, but I would like to say that this post really forced me to do so! really nice post,and very informative,thanks. Generally I do not post on blogs, but I would like to say that this post really forced me to do so! really nice post,and very informative,thanks.

]]> By: matt w http://www.johnbasl.com/?p=346&cpage=1#comment-590 matt w Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:11:09 +0000 http://www.johnbasl.com/?p=346#comment-590 John, Minor point: For some reason an "http" got slapped on to the end of the first website. It should be: http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2006/02/a_guide_for_gra.html Regarding the second point, I should've been a bit more precise. When I talked with an individual in that dept., they said that having publications per se didn't count against a candidate, and might be looked on favorably. However, if the publication was in a top-flight journal, that might be evidence that the candidate wasn't "realistic" for them, and so might be passed over. I doubt that a good publication by itself would be break a candidate, but seems reasonable to throw that type of consideration into the mix. John,

Minor point: For some reason an “http” got slapped on to the end of the first website. It should be:

http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2006/02/a_guide_for_gra.html

Regarding the second point, I should’ve been a bit more precise. When I talked with an individual in that dept., they said that having publications per se didn’t count against a candidate, and might be looked on favorably. However, if the publication was in a top-flight journal, that might be evidence that the candidate wasn’t “realistic” for them, and so might be passed over. I doubt that a good publication by itself would be break a candidate, but seems reasonable to throw that type of consideration into the mix.

]]> By: John Basl http://www.johnbasl.com/?p=346&cpage=1#comment-589 John Basl Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:39:36 +0000 http://www.johnbasl.com/?p=346#comment-589 @MattW Thanks. I'll re-look at those discussion of publications on L's blog. With respect to your comment about the second reason, I think that it is okay to aim for realistic people (for the reason you mention), but doubt that having a publication removes a person from being a realistic candidate. Given the pressure to publish and the applicant-to-job ratio, it seems that an inference to a candidates being an unrealistic candidate should come from elsewhere. @CA Thanks for the comment. That is good to hear. As Matt Barker said, it would be great to have a collection of data on this. I wonder, what kind of load your faculty typically have and if there is any correlation between discounting publications and standard teaching load. @MattW

Thanks. I’ll re-look at those discussion of publications on L’s blog.

With respect to your comment about the second reason, I think that it is okay to aim for realistic people (for the reason you mention), but doubt that having a publication removes a person from being a realistic candidate. Given the pressure to publish and the applicant-to-job ratio, it seems that an inference to a candidates being an unrealistic candidate should come from elsewhere.

@CA

Thanks for the comment. That is good to hear. As Matt Barker said, it would be great to have a collection of data on this. I wonder, what kind of load your faculty typically have and if there is any correlation between discounting publications and standard teaching load.

]]> By: CA http://www.johnbasl.com/?p=346&cpage=1#comment-588 CA Tue, 22 Sep 2009 01:03:54 +0000 http://www.johnbasl.com/?p=346#comment-588 Being at a small liberal arts teaching college at which teaching is overall considered more important for tenure than publications, we certainly would not pass over a candidate just because they published, and I've never heard any suggestion of this. I've sat on search committees in philosophy and several other disciplines, I've also taught to colleagues at other similar schools. It sounds unlikely to me, given the fact that most candidates have some publications. The absence of publications is, however, not necessarily a reason for a candidate to be passed over. We may not be as impressed by either your pedigree or the long list of publications. Rather, we'll probably scrutinize your letter and your teaching evaluations, look for the sort of breadth and pluralist background that fits most with our needs. Now not all teaching schools are built the same way. Small departments such as ours have very different needs than larger departments that emphasize undergraduate teaching. But, I can't imagine us counting publications against a candidate. All things being equal they are always going to count in favor of a candidate, but they're not the only thing that we look at. Being at a small liberal arts teaching college at which teaching is overall considered more important for tenure than publications, we certainly would not pass over a candidate just because they published, and I’ve never heard any suggestion of this. I’ve sat on search committees in philosophy and several other disciplines, I’ve also taught to colleagues at other similar schools. It sounds unlikely to me, given the fact that most candidates have some publications.

The absence of publications is, however, not necessarily a reason for a candidate to be passed over. We may not be as impressed by either your pedigree or the long list of publications. Rather, we’ll probably scrutinize your letter and your teaching evaluations, look for the sort of breadth and pluralist background that fits most with our needs. Now not all teaching schools are built the same way. Small departments such as ours have very different needs than larger departments that emphasize undergraduate teaching. But, I can’t imagine us counting publications against a candidate. All things being equal they are always going to count in favor of a candidate, but they’re not the only thing that we look at.

]]> By: matt w http://www.johnbasl.com/?p=346&cpage=1#comment-586 matt w Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:52:59 +0000 http://www.johnbasl.com/?p=346#comment-586 John, There has been some discussion of graduate student publishing on Leiter's site in the somewhat recent past: http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2006/02/a_guide_for_gra.htmlhttp: http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2004/11/advice_to_philo.html Also, I'm not sure the second reason you dismiss is necessarily a bad one. For instance, I know of a school who tried to hire one year and got no one because the candidates they liked all took positions at other schools. Given that some types of institutions might lose out in this way, it doesn't seem unreasonable for them to aim to get candidates they think will accept their offers. One way of doing this is to prefer applicants who look less likely to be pursued by research institutions (i.e. those without publications). John,

There has been some discussion of graduate student publishing on Leiter’s site in the somewhat recent past:

http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2006/02/a_guide_for_gra.htmlhttp:

http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2004/11/advice_to_philo.html

Also, I’m not sure the second reason you dismiss is necessarily a bad one. For instance, I know of a school who tried to hire one year and got no one because the candidates they liked all took positions at other schools. Given that some types of institutions might lose out in this way, it doesn’t seem unreasonable for them to aim to get candidates they think will accept their offers. One way of doing this is to prefer applicants who look less likely to be pursued by research institutions (i.e. those without publications).

]]> By: Matt Barker http://www.johnbasl.com/?p=346&cpage=1#comment-585 Matt Barker Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:42:14 +0000 http://www.johnbasl.com/?p=346#comment-585 I think these are important concerns. I'm a phil grad student who has published, and I'm enthusiastic about working in a department that focuses on teaching. This is because I think teaching is important and I enjoy teaching philosophy. It is hard to see how publications could count as evidence against having feeling that way. However, it would be interesting to have large-sample empirical data on whether non-publishing PhD grads tend to meet/exceed, once hired, the expectations of teaching focused departments at a higher rate than publishing PhD grads. Maybe non-publishers do outperform the publishers in this respect. But this surely won't be true in each pair-wise comparison of non-publisher vs. publisher. I hope that teaching focused departments at least keep this in mind, and so investigate each (otherwise promising) publishing applicant's application, to see whether they are a trend-bucker. More generally I hope decisions of how to weigh publications on an application are done on a case by case basis, taking into account other pieces of the application. I think these are important concerns. I’m a phil grad student who has published, and I’m enthusiastic about working in a department that focuses on teaching. This is because I think teaching is important and I enjoy teaching philosophy. It is hard to see how publications could count as evidence against having feeling that way.
However, it would be interesting to have large-sample empirical data on whether non-publishing PhD grads tend to meet/exceed, once hired, the expectations of teaching focused departments at a higher rate than publishing PhD grads. Maybe non-publishers do outperform the publishers in this respect. But this surely won’t be true in each pair-wise comparison of non-publisher vs. publisher. I hope that teaching focused departments at least keep this in mind, and so investigate each (otherwise promising) publishing applicant’s application, to see whether they are a trend-bucker. More generally I hope decisions of how to weigh publications on an application are done on a case by case basis, taking into account other pieces of the application.

]]> By: John Basl http://www.johnbasl.com/?p=346&cpage=1#comment-584 John Basl Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:40:53 +0000 http://www.johnbasl.com/?p=346#comment-584 Peter, Thanks for the comment. I hope the US is as you describe the UK. I would understand not getting a job because there was a flood of strong candidates, but I would hate to not get a job because I was passed over because a department thought I wouldn't care enough about teaching based on (hopefully) a publication record. Peter,

Thanks for the comment. I hope the US is as you describe the UK. I would understand not getting a job because there was a flood of strong candidates, but I would hate to not get a job because I was passed over because a department thought I wouldn’t care enough about teaching based on (hopefully) a publication record.

]]> By: Peter Smith http://www.johnbasl.com/?p=346&cpage=1#comment-583 Peter Smith Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:34:12 +0000 http://www.johnbasl.com/?p=346#comment-583 Interesting post, and your final remark seems spot on. I can't comment on the USA situation, but a decent publication record seems to have become a sine qua non of getting a job in more or less any half-way respectable UK department. Once upon a time, you used to hear anecdotes about third-rate departments turning down first-rate research-promising candidates, preferring to live with more comfortable mediocrity. But those days are long gone (of course, slightly odd things do happen, but that's human life for you: even philosophy appointment commitments have their foibles!). The RAEs -- Research Assessment Exercises -- over last twenty years have made a heck of a difference in that kind of way. Interesting post, and your final remark seems spot on. I can’t comment on the USA situation, but a decent publication record seems to have become a sine qua non of getting a job in more or less any half-way respectable UK department. Once upon a time, you used to hear anecdotes about third-rate departments turning down first-rate research-promising candidates, preferring to live with more comfortable mediocrity. But those days are long gone (of course, slightly odd things do happen, but that’s human life for you: even philosophy appointment commitments have their foibles!). The RAEs — Research Assessment Exercises — over last twenty years have made a heck of a difference in that kind of way.

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